Zhao Changpeng's latest share: The future scale of the cryptocurrency industry will be at least $40 trillion, and uncertainty is the greatest joy in life.

On the evening of December 4th, at the Binance Blockchain Week event, Binance founder Changpeng Zhao (CZ) participated in a group interview, sharing his views on the most pressing concerns regarding Binance in the market.

This year has been unforgettable for CZ. After being convicted and imprisoned during the Biden administration and paying a $4.3 billion fine, he received a pardon from President Trump. On the day he received the news, he was clearly in high spirits, posting several messages on social media to thank Trump.

The pardon not only signifies an elevation in his physical freedom, allowing him to go to Washington at any time, but it is also an epic boon for Binance. This is because Binance's business in the U.S. had been nearly decimated by regulatory pressures in previous years. In the interview, he also mentioned that the U.S. is now an emerging market for Binance.

Rhythm BlockBeats organized the interview, condensing the content without altering CZ's original intent and tone. Below are CZ's latest thoughts and perspectives.

Question: What unresolved issues must cryptocurrency address to become part of daily life in the next three to five years? How do we get there?

CZ: That's a great question. One obvious issue is "payments." In the Bitcoin white paper, cryptocurrency was originally designed as electronic cash for payments. Many people have indeed tried to create payment products, but what we see on-chain now is mostly various financial products with speculative attributes; truly "usable payments" have not yet been fully realized.

There are many reasons for this, one typical issue being "price volatility." Now that we have stablecoins, theoretically, everyone can use stablecoins for payments, but in reality, it will take time to mature these technical solutions and turn them into truly mainstream products.

I personally believe a potentially viable path is to integrate with traditional payment networks, like the Binance Card, which combines crypto assets with the Visa and Mastercard systems. Users swipe a card, merchants receive fiat currency, and users are charged in crypto assets. This kind of solution is actually quite good.

Unfortunately, due to regulations and some policies from the Biden administration, we lost most of the Binance Card business, so these cards have not fully returned yet. I hope that in the coming years, similar solutions can become popular again. In short, there are many different solutions for payments, but this is the most important direction in my opinion.

Question: What was your initial vision for Binance's model and vision? What has actually happened today? What did you "get wrong" initially, and what predictions turned out to be correct?

CZ: I think predicting the future is inherently difficult. When I founded Binance, my goal was to become one of the top ten trading platforms in the world within three years, but we became number one in just five months.

Initially, we thought we should establish a physical headquarters somewhere, with an office, a sign, and a building, operating like a traditional company. But later we found that this approach had many issues. So we shifted to a completely decentralized organization, with no headquarters or centralized office. Then we discovered that this posed regulatory problems, as regulators need to know where your headquarters is and which jurisdiction it falls under, so we adjusted our course once again.

This journey has been a process of trial and error, back and forth. Now, I feel the landscape is much clearer. Centralized trading platforms will be companies that are "licensed, regulated, and have a clear headquarters and physical office." On the other hand, decentralized solutions on-chain are becoming increasingly popular, and fully decentralized protocols will continue to develop.

Question: In the next cycle, what types of projects or founders do you think will stand out? Which will be eliminated?

CZ: This is a broad question, but I think the first point is to look at "products" and "founders who create products." These founders are genuinely building products that can be used in daily life, focusing on users rather than hype. Teams driven by products and users will stick around.

The second point is that the crypto industry is highly volatile. We are likely in a bull market now, but there will definitely be bear markets again, followed by another bull market and another bear market. Regulations in different countries will also fluctuate between being lenient and strict, cycling back and forth multiple times. So the founders who can survive are those who are not afraid of volatility and can persist in the long term.

Question: What do you think of the DAT model? Is it sustainable?

CZ: I believe the DAT model will continue to exist; its underlying logic is sound. Its essence is to help traditional companies that "cannot directly buy Bitcoin or crypto assets" gain exposure to crypto assets.

Many CFOs of companies are allowed to allocate company funds to stocks, but there are no internal processes or permissions for them to directly buy cryptocurrencies. The DAT structure fills this gap perfectly.

Within the DAT structure, there can be many different types. Because MicroStrategy has been particularly successful, everyone now wants to replicate it. Just like the internet, one successful internet company does not mean all internet companies are well-managed. The management fee structures of different DATs vary greatly. I personally believe that lower management fees are better, and DAT companies should strive to be simple and transparent.

Some models are straightforward, like MicroStrategy, which continuously buys Bitcoin, while BNB-related DATs buy BNB. If you use BNB correctly, leveraging tools like Launchpad, Launchpool, and airdrops, you can achieve an annualized return of 10-15%, which is very attractive compared to traditional stock markets.

Other DATs aim to be more "fancy" and "active," for example, allocating 10% of their funds for investments to buy a basket of different crypto assets. This essentially becomes a different business model, with a completely different risk structure, heavily reliant on the expertise of the management team.

Question: Now that you have received a pardon from President Trump, will you start new businesses in the U.S. and collaborate more with the Trump family?

CZ: First of all, I currently have no collaboration with the Trump family. I am, of course, very grateful for the pardon from President Trump, which allows me and our business to operate more freely around the world, including in the U.S.

I very much hope to help the U.S. become the "global center of cryptocurrency." From a company perspective, the U.S. is actually an "emerging market" for us, because in recent years, during the Biden administration, our relationship with the U.S. has been very tense. During that time, we basically tried to distance ourselves from the U.S. as much as possible and reduce all connections.

We do have Binance US, but its scale is very small. On the day we were sued by the SEC in 2023, it had a 35% share of the spot market, but now it is almost down to single digits, and the banking channels have been largely cut off, with licenses lost in most states.

Now my understanding is that the situation has reopened. The U.S. is a very important market, leading globally in many fields such as technology talent and AI. However, in the blockchain space, most of the largest companies are not based in the U.S.

I hope to bring many high-quality crypto businesses back to the U.S. and help American institutional investors gain exposure to BNB and the entire BNB ecosystem. Currently, many U.S. institutions have no access to BNB and do not understand the BNB ecosystem.

So whether from an investment perspective or from the standpoint of supporting entrepreneurs and helping quality projects grow, we will be more actively involved in the U.S. market, helping to establish a stronger crypto industry ecosystem locally.

Question: You have been very active on X and often face public scrutiny and even attacks. How do you maintain mental health and stability in such circumstances?

CZ: For me, it's actually quite simple.

Online attacks can generally be divided into two categories. One is traditional mainstream media, which has long stood against crypto narratives, saying things like "cryptocurrencies are used by bad people" or "Bitcoin is abused by criminals." These narratives are essentially the traditional system's fear of new technology.

In the U.S., especially from the Democratic side, there is particularly heavy criticism of crypto. I don't engage in politics; I just speak the facts. And I believe that most ordinary Americans actually want to own cryptocurrencies.

The other category consists of people who have lost money in trading. Many people, when they make money on investments, feel they have good judgment; but once they lose money, they start blaming the trading platform and others. I sympathize with their losses, but everyone must take responsibility for their actions.

I have faced many challenges, including imprisonment, but I am very clear that no one has been defrauded because of my actions, and users have not lost their assets because of us, so I sleep well every night knowing that I am helping many people.

Now, I can automatically filter out negative voices, but I still actively seek constructive negative feedback, as these can help improve our products. As for those who purely vent their emotions, there's no need to take them to heart.

Question: What do you think the next steps for mainstream adoption are, and what role can Binance play in that?

CZ: I think this process will be relatively slow. The first step is for the regulatory framework to become clearer. I personally serve as an advisor to many governments. Currently, there are not many countries with a clear and forward-looking regulatory framework for crypto.

The U.S. is now starting to move forward, which is a good thing, but Trump was only in office for a year, the GENIUS Act has just passed, and the Clarity Act is still being pushed. I believe it will eventually be implemented, but it will take time to refine what form it will take and what the initial rules will lack.

Once the regulations are in place, banks will also need time to adapt and adjust to protect their own businesses. The crypto industry we speak of is actually a very new and young industry. To achieve mainstream adoption, the best way is to deeply integrate with the existing financial system rather than completely severing ties.

There are still many specific issues that need to be resolved, such as whether companies can hold crypto assets. If so, how should they account for them? How should taxes be handled in different countries? How should financial reports be disclosed? How should audits be conducted? These things may seem cumbersome, but they are not insurmountable challenges; they just need time.

Additionally, from the perspective of the overall industry scale, crypto is still very small. It is currently only around $30-40 trillion in size, but it should reach at least $30-40 trillion in the future. Large-scale applications like payments must be truly implemented, and more financial scenarios need to migrate on-chain before we can say we have truly "just begun."

Question: How do you think cryptocurrencies can help developing countries, and what should we do to help these countries better understand and accept crypto?

CZ: I believe that in developing countries, there are even more opportunities for crypto. I once received a letter from someone who said that he started using cryptocurrency in 2017, and before that, he had to walk three days to the town to pay a bill every month. After he started using crypto, he could complete the payment in just three minutes. As a result, he saved three days each month, which he could use for other things.

He started with $50, saving little by little, eventually rising to $300, then to $1,000. For someone from a very poor country, this is already a considerable amount of money, enough to change their life.

In many developing countries, the local currency is often more unstable than crypto assets, frequently experiencing hyperinflation. Bitcoin and stablecoins can provide them with excellent hedging tools.

Moreover, many developing countries have very young populations. Take Pakistan as an example; I have been collaborating there recently, and the average age is about 25 years. The population is very young and open to new technologies, and they naturally like cryptocurrencies.

Now, governments are starting to realize this. Since young people like it, we should find ways to give them what they want. Therefore, if a country's leadership is open and forward-thinking enough, I would strongly encourage them to seriously embrace crypto.

Question: What is the current development status of Giggle Academy?

CZ: Giggle Academy is not a "business" but a completely free educational platform.

Just this morning, I had a meeting with the team. Currently, the platform has about 88,000 child users, with three to four thousand new users added each week, showing rapid growth. We have launched about 300 courses and two to three thousand storybooks.

The content is primarily in English, and we have just added basic support for Arabic. The storybooks have also been translated into thirty to forty languages using AI. The team is expanding content while optimizing the product experience, such as improving the accuracy of voice recognition when children interact with AI.

The team now has over 60 full-time members, plus several hundred content contributors. For the first 8 to 9 months, we basically funded this team out of our own pockets. Later, someone launched a meme coin based on the project, and the community donated about $11 million. We are now mainly thinking about how to use this money effectively to expand the platform's influence and design better incentives for content contributors.

Overall, the project is progressing well, but it is entirely non-profit and always free for children. If you have kids aged 2-6, you can let them try it out. I believe the engagement will be strong, allowing them to "play" while learning words, concepts, and expressions.

Next, we will continue to expand into more languages. Practice has shown that Chinese and Arabic cannot simply translate English courses directly; instead, we need to redesign a system according to their respective language habits.

The project has already been implemented in some kindergartens in Abu Dhabi, where local leaders are very supportive and have even offered financial assistance. However, what we need more now is landing scenarios rather than money. We also want to create a Korean version, but our team's capacity is limited, so we can only advance it gradually.

My ultimate goal is to make this tool powerful enough that anyone can create courses on the platform, truly transforming it into a "user-generated content" educational platform. Of course, creating content that is both engaging and high-quality, capable of capturing children's attention, is not easy. We are also using AI extensively to lower the barriers to creation.

Question: What social issues and specific projects are you most concerned about? Where do you plan to donate money in the future?

CZ: I have always believed that money is not meant to be stored away but to be used; money is a tool.

Currently, the social issue I am most focused on is education. To be honest, I haven't spent that much out of my own pocket so far, probably around one to two million dollars, mainly for the sixty-plus employees at Giggle Academy. In contrast, the $11 million donated by the community is a larger amount; that money is essentially not mine; I am just responsible for using it on suitable educational projects.

As for my personal wealth donation arrangements, I am still exploring. When I was at Binance, I had access to many existing resources, such as charity teams and security teams, which was like having a natural leverage. Now that I have left, I no longer have my own charity team, so I may need to build a small team from scratch or directly merge with a mature team. In fact, just one or two people can help me systematically filter and evaluate projects.

During this time, I have met quite a few people involved in social projects. For example, I just met a former venture capital partner named Bill yesterday. He has also been imprisoned due to some events and spent over 90 days in solitary confinement. Now he is working on a project related to soil microorganisms, hoping to restore soil damaged by fertilizers and chemicals, allowing the land to regain nutrients. This project is being promoted on a non-profit basis but has a sustainable business model that can be self-sustaining.

I originally said I wouldn't put too much energy into climate issues, but later I learned from him that restoring soil can absorb about 30% of atmospheric carbon emissions, which is actually highly related to climate.

I have recently come into contact with many people and projects like this. Besides education, I do not have a particularly clear long-term focus yet; many times, I rely more on experts in these fields to make judgments.

Additionally, I have privately donated money to projects like prison education and orphan assistance through some charitable organizations, both in Thailand and other countries. The overall scale is not large, but the types are quite diverse, and it is still in the experimental stage.

My ideal state is that in the future, all donations can be completed on the blockchain, using cryptocurrency for transfers, so that every step from the outflow of funds to the final beneficiaries is open, transparent, and traceable.

However, the reality is that many final beneficiaries do not use crypto wallets. If I only donate with cryptocurrency, the number of people who can receive the funds will be very limited. So now I am conducting small-scale experiments in different charitable organizations to see which institutions are efficient and truly impactful. Once I find suitable partners, I will scale up.

Question: When you imagine a world where "a billion people use Binance and Web3," what does the picture in your mind look like?

CZ: I think the final form should be that people no longer mention terms like "crypto" or "Web3." Just as we don't discuss the "TCP/IP" protocol today, in the future, people won't say, "I want to use blockchain," but will simply say, "I want to pay someone," or "I want to buy something in an application."

At that time, brand names may become verbs, just as we naturally say "Google it" today. The underlying technology should be completely abstracted away, with no need to discuss concepts like chains, gas fees, cross-chain transactions, or withdrawals, let alone complex addresses.

Ideally, you should only need to input the other person's name to complete a payment directly. Of course, with today's technology, we are still far from that state. Most products in the industry are still technology-oriented, aimed at developers or early players. We need a lot more user-friendly products that hide the complexity in the backend.

This does not necessarily have to be accomplished through Binance; it could be an ecosystem composed of many applications and platforms. However, from the perspective of network effects, it is highly likely that one or two super entry points will emerge, just like Google once did in the search engine field, although it is now being partially replaced by AI.

So, in my mind, that future is a world where everyone knows they are using a certain product or brand but no longer discusses whether it is Web3 behind the scenes.

Question: What are your thoughts on the recent management structure adjustments, and what directions will you focus on more in Binance in the future?

CZ: For me, this adjustment is very natural. He Yi, as a co-founder, has always been at the core of the company's strategy, extremely diligent and close to the community and products. She is one of the most resilient people I have ever met. This title change is essentially a formal acknowledgment of the existing reality. The external feedback has also been uniformly positive; whether in Asia or the West, her recognition is very high.

She is nine years younger than me and is at the golden age when I took over as CEO. It is a natural progression for her to lead a larger team. In fact, she has already been fulfilling the responsibilities of the top leader before the official announcement. She and Richard have highly complementary abilities: Richard excels in regulation and English; while He Yi is still improving her English, she has a strong learning ability and is willing to communicate, which is an excellent configuration for the company.

As for myself, on the night I stepped down as Binance CEO, I was writing a farewell letter in Seattle at four in the morning, crying. But during my time in the U.S., I adjusted my mindset through skiing and surfing, realizing that the company still operates well without my deep involvement. Life moves forward, and I don't need to return to that position.

Now I am focusing on the BNB Chain ecosystem, Yzi Labs, and Giggle Academy, and I am advising the government on regulatory frameworks. Not being involved in daily management allows me to free up energy to promote ecosystem growth. The Binance team is already strong enough, and I believe that high-frequency, healthy leadership rotation can create space for the next generation, which is good for the company's long-term development.

Question: What daily habit do you think is most important to your success?

CZ: I think the habit of learning something new every day is very important.

What schools teach us is mostly foundational skills; they do not teach you entrepreneurship, negotiation, emotional intelligence, financial literacy, how to start a company, or how to be a boss. These truly important skills must be learned gradually in society. Even in college, there is rarely a systematic teaching of these.

If you are in a highly specialized profession, like a doctor or lawyer, you will indeed use a lot of the knowledge learned in school in your daily work. But for most people, especially entrepreneurs, you must rely on continuous self-learning. Therefore, I believe it is important to learn something every day; it forces you to maintain an open mindset, preventing you from closing yourself off in your existing framework, and makes it easier for you to capture new opportunities.

The second point is that I think hard work and maintaining health are equally important. Entrepreneurship is actually a physically demanding job, not just a mental one; you need to have a body that can withstand it. You must develop good habits, learn to stabilize yourself under pressure, sleep well, eat well, exercise regularly, and take good care of your body. On this premise, you should also be able to maintain high-intensity output, working efficiently for sixteen hours a day while staying healthy.

So, to summarize, it is about learning a little every day, maintaining an open mindset, while also working hard and taking care of your body, prioritizing these things.

Question: You have experienced many ups and downs and built one of the most influential companies in history. If one day you stand before "God" and can only say five things you hope to accomplish before you die, what would they be?

CZ: I would simplify this question; having one "wish" would be enough. To be honest, I don't have many specific wishes.

Life is interesting because it is unpredictable. If everything were a scripted play and you knew what would happen next every day, you would lose the fun. The reason you work hard and strive is that you are uncertain about the outcome.

It's like playing a game; if you know from the start that you will win 100%, the game becomes meaningless. Instead, it is the kind of game that requires constant attempts, collaboration, careful coordination with teammates, and continuous strategy adjustments that is more interesting.

I do have one wish: I hope everyone can stay healthy. I think that is one of the most important things. But we cannot fully control health; we can develop healthy habits, but there are still many uncertainties.

Aside from that, I think the world itself is already very interesting. It is precisely because we only have one life that humanity will cherish this life more. If you had infinite lives, time would lose its value, and many things would lose their meaning. If you know you only have a limited opportunity to do something, you will cherish it more.

So I won't list a long list of wishes. I have been very lucky, and if I really had the chance to say something to God, I would probably just say, "Please don't put me in too unfortunate a situation; I am already very satisfied with my current state."

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